Comments on Fourth Wave: Biden and gay marriage

Brianna and Dr. Jay: I completely agree that "marr...

2008-10-07T03:39:03.448-04:00

Brianna and Dr. Jay: I completely agree that "marriage" as such is actually the problem, but of course doing away with marriage as something that is state-sanctioned as well as religiously-sanctioned (when it should only be the latter) is pretty much impossible in this kind of political climate.

Interestingly, my father (who is German) and I were having a discussion about gay marriage the other day and he could not understand why I was so bothered by the semantic difference between civil unions and gay marriage. But then he explained that in Germany everyone, gay or straight, has to get the equivalent of a civil union if you want to be considered a couple under German law. Marriage is something that only happens in church and is not legally binding. Hence, in Germany couples have the same rights under the law regardless of orientation because all couples get the same civil union. The religious marriage ceremony, if you want it, is just icing, and the government has nothing to do with it. And, considering the supposed separation of church and state in this country that's really how things should be here, too (like you said, Jay).

@Kekla: You're totally right. It's just as ridiculous to not vote for Obama/Biden solely because they are pro-LGBT as it would be to not vote for them because they may not be pro-LGBT enough.

I wish marriage equality was reality, and not a po...

2008-10-06T12:21:33.405-04:00

I wish marriage equality was reality, and not a political debate point. It's sad that the candidates can't speak honestly about their views for fear of losing votes, but it's understandable. Maddening, but understandable, because the broad public support is not there yet.

I find it ridiculous that there are people out there who would not vote for Obama/Biden solely because the candidates support marriage equality, even if the voter prefers all other aspects of their platform. How closed-minded can you be?

But, honestly, I feel the same about the opposite case. If pro-marriage equality people abstain from voting based on this single issue, it's really no better than what the homophobic "values voters" are doing.

Instead of focusing on what politicians believe (or claim to believe), we should be working to change public opinion. That's what the right is doing, and doing well. And that's what changes laws.

thanks for shamelessly promoting, good entry. loo...

2008-10-05T18:55:03.885-04:00

thanks for shamelessly promoting, good entry. look, im with you its frustrating but at the same token who will bring us closer to marriage equality? obama. no ifs ands or buts. i also think he is for marriage equality just cant "come out" and say so.

As a queer woman, gay marriage is an important iss...

2008-10-05T04:09:41.971-04:00

As a queer woman, gay marriage is an important issue to me. Who is the government to tell me that my relationships with men are more valid and real than my relationships with women? Why should I have to automatically forfeit thousands of rights just because the person that I fell in love with and chose to spend my life with happens to have a vagina?

I do, however, understand the Obama/Biden campaign and I see their strategy. I do not think that they are inherently opposed to gay marriage at all, but at this point they are picking their issues and doing what they can to win the campaign.

I'd certainly like to see everyone have the same r...

2008-10-04T22:38:07.410-04:00

I'd certainly like to see everyone have the same rights regardless of sexual orientation. At the same time, the more I think about what exactly differentiates "marriage" from "civil union," the more I see "legal marriage" as a clear violation of the separation of church and state. Ultimately, if we're to define marriage the way its self styled "defenders" do, as something "traditional" and "sacred," involving people joined together and "sanctified" by some kind of deity, then most of my married friends are not actually married, since their weddings were civil ceremonies without any religious content.

Nonetheless, there's no question in my mind that the attitudes toward gay marriage expressed by Obama, Biden, and Bill (and until very recently) Hilary Clinton before them are, to put it nicely, political expediency, or, to put it not so nicely, political cowardice. Then, I'm even more positive that they know we need to do far more to stop global warming than they dare to suggest, and that, for all they say about how much they respect John McCain, they know even better than we what a lying, mercenary dirtball he is, not to mention that, if John Biden were at all honest with himself, he would have refused to dignify a walking insult to American intelligence like Sarah Palin by debating her.

Ultimately, we live in a society that gives way too much respect to religion, particularly the sexually repressed, bigoted, and unbelievably hypocritical varieties that have somehow been allowed to define terms like "moral," "values," and even "family," not to mention "marriage" in our public sphere. I'd give anything to vote for a viable presidential candidate who would say straight out that we're not going to let these festering assholes shove their ignorant bullshit down our collective throats anywmore. I can dream, can't I?

I'm opposed to gay 'marriage'. And I'm a lesbian. ...

2008-10-04T21:13:06.741-04:00

I'm opposed to gay 'marriage'. And I'm a lesbian. Let me explain: I oppose all marriage as a legal form.

I don't think that the government should regulate or define marriage in any way. Certainly the federal government shouldn't. Things like inheritance and medical privacy should be redefined in non-marriage related terms. Tax differences for married people are arbitrary and should be refined.

Here's a link to a better explanation than I could even give. (skip to 7:30 or so)

On the other hand, if we must have an 'institution' of marriage, we certainly need to include everyone, but it should only be a temporary measure.